| election views? |
Mon, 05 May 2008 06:03  |
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No no, not the US election but the recent UK election that saw the Conservatives (can we still call them Tories?) regain many lost votes from 16 years ago from New Labor...
People here have been very grumpy about the past few months of the UK economy.
Will the election results make a big difference?
Is Gordon Brown / Tony Blair / New Labour to blame for the credit crunch and the never-ending rise of basic commodities, as I tend to blame the US banking and financial system, combined with hedge funds' (both US & UK) never-ending speculations that have caused much rise of commodity prices, for all of this mess. Long and messy sentence but you get the gist of it.
It's a shame that both the credit crunch and the commodity price increases happened simultaneously, as I don't feel they are totally connected. Meanwhile managed financial funds that bet big against mortgage lending did quite well (a few lucky US fund managers earned from hundreds of millions to billions of dollars in their 2007 personal income, thus less than what their firms earned), offsetting other funds that bet for mortgage lending and lost (those fund managers still earn money, albeit less if their funds lost money).
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Mike
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| Re: election views? |
Mon, 05 May 2008 12:20  |
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Don't worry Mike ...the recent UK elections were only Council elections - which count for nothing as far as shaping the policies of the country are concerned. People often vote quite differently at General elections when ' push comes to shove ' 
However - the main problem in the UK is that it's increasingly difficult to see any difference at all between New Labour and the Tories ...they sort of ... morph into one these days 
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| Re: election views? |
Mon, 05 May 2008 12:25 |
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I think it shows public opinion quite well Mike, I really do believe that at the next general election we will see the Tories back in power, although hopefully with a different leader.
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| Re: election views? |
Mon, 05 May 2008 13:08 |
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| andysffs wrote on Mon, 05 May 2008 12:25 |
I think it shows public opinion quite well Mike, I really do believe that at the next general election we will see the Tories back in power, although hopefully with a different leader.
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I knew you were a ' Right Winger ' ... sort of a Norman Tebbit on acid  
Surely, you should be happy with the current shower in charge .... they are as close to Thatcherism as any Tory Government since the Iron Lady herself ...
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| Re: election views? |
Mon, 05 May 2008 13:30 |
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They have had eleven years to try and improve this country, and all we have had is eleven years or ruin, cant wait for tories to get back in power. It really cannot come soon enough.
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| Re: election views? |
Mon, 05 May 2008 14:28 |
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I read about the new London mayor; it seems (from the press I read - New York Times and/or Wall Street Journal) that he's a bit whacky. Alas I read it in print media on Saturday so can't actually quote anything now.
I thought it was funny how he referred to Livingstone as "Leavingtown" or something like that...
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Mike
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| Re: election views? |
Mon, 05 May 2008 15:15 |
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Mike,
I think it was a combo of the things you mentioned, perceived government incompetency, and people feeling it's time for a change (not that the Tories will be much of a change).
NuLab have done lots wrong - not least of which was playing lapdog to Bush II. They are also seen to be more focused on the middle classes and not their traditional working class support base - but I think that is a combination of political necessity (Thatcher moved the country so far to the right, with the help of the press), press bias, and NuLab not being very good at selling what they've done well (for example, they've done lots for
schools in socially deprived areas & the 2p they knocked off the base rate of tax has been forgotten in the wake of the removal of the 10p rate).
However, I despair at a system which perpetuates the unequal distribution of wealth (both nationally and internationally). As an avid reader of Noam Chomsky I have become increasingly disillusioned with the ideas of democracy, freedom, economic equality and morality etc that Western governments pretend to be interested in.
To me, the major difference between Western democracy and dictatorship is one of subtlety of method. Both are interested in maintaining a status quo whereby a rich and powerful elite
flourish at the expense of everybody else. Soviet-style 'communism' (ha!) used fear (of the state itself)and brutality, whilst Western democracies use fear (of other states), bread and
circus to disenfranchise populations from meaningful political control over their own destinies.
Both Labour and Conservatives are part of this system (as are your Republicans and the increasingly absurd Democrats) & we'll never know whether the Lib Dems are or not, since they are now effectively the most left wing party & so will not get a look in thanks to a biased media.
To get back to your question, it matters little really, as the differences between the two parties are so slim, and both NuLab and Cameron's 'Nice' Tories are willing to switch policies at the drop of a hat if they think it'll win 'em a few votes. Much as I hate Thatcher and her political ideas, at least she had some beliefs.
As for Boris, it'll be interesting to see how long Tory Party HQ can keep him in check. I'm looking forward to some 'Prince Philip'-style gaffes as he's not known for his tact and
diplomacy. Last year he had to apologise to the city of Liverpool for saying they "wallow" in their "victim status" in an article about Ken Bigley - a British contractor who was taken hostage and later killed in Iraq. He was also sacked from the Tory front
bench for lying about an affair. He was also sacked by the Times newspaper for falsifying a quotation.
Perhaps funniest, was an international gaffe:
"For 10 years we in the Tory Party have become used to Papua New Guinea-style orgies of cannibalism and chief-killing, and so it is with a happy amazement that we watch as the madness engulfs the Labour Party."
So, fun times ahead for London!
Mike, a question in turn. We've been getting a lot of coverage of your primaries etc. Do you think the whole circus that surrounds what appears to be an overly drawn-out process actually serves democracy in any genuine way? I laugh out loud at some of the things I see the various candidates say and do on the news - and thus cannot take any of them at all seriously. It's like WWF for people who like politics.
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| Re: election views? |
Mon, 05 May 2008 20:59 |
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| Quote |
As for Boris, it'll be interesting to see how long Tory Party HQ can keep him in check. I'm looking forward to some 'Prince Philip'-style gaffes as he's not known for his tact and
diplomacy. Last year he had to apologise to the city of Liverpool for saying they "wallow" in their "victim status" in an article about Ken Bigley - a British contractor who was taken hostage and later killed in Iraq. He was also sacked from the Tory front
bench for lying about an affair. He was also sacked by the Times newspaper for falsifying a quotation.
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I think you may be surprised at Boris. Just because some of the press think he's a baffoon doesn't necessarily make him one. And as for that lying about having an affair - well, Labour hasn't exactly been cleaner than clean about that!
Anyway, haven't we had enough of Red Ken to last a lifetime?
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| Re: election views? |
Tue, 06 May 2008 01:27 |
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If a party has been in Government for 11 years and the opposition hasnt made any head way toward forming a Government, then surely one way is to change policies in the direction of the Goverment.
Then present a more charismatic leader presenting those policies, hoping that the people will take to him/her and get the party elected.
Then they can set about changing what they said they would do and do as they want to do hoping it is enough to sway the people to vote for them again in 3 years (Oz)
Our last federal election in November last years was like that. It even had a name, "Me too-ism" When the Liberal Gov said something the Labor party agreed with that policy, by saying they would do the same or similar.
It worked. The labor party is now in Government with the leader (Prime Minister) experiencing a 76% popularity over the new leader of the opposition at close to 7%.
And its the first time in our history that a Prime Minister has lost not just Goverment but his electoral seat too.
[Updated on: Tue, 06 May 2008 01:31]
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| Re: election views? |
Tue, 06 May 2008 10:08 |
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| JeffM wrote on Tue, 06 May 2008 01:27 |
If a party has been in Government for 11 years and the opposition hasnt made any head way toward forming a Government, then surely one way is to change policies in the direction of the Goverment.
Then present a more charismatic leader presenting those policies, hoping that the people will take to him/her and get the party elected.
Then they can set about changing what they said they would do and do as they want to do hoping it is enough to sway the people to vote for them again in 3 years (Oz)
Our last federal election in November last years was like that. It even had a name, "Me too-ism" When the Liberal Gov said something the Labor party agreed with that policy, by saying they would do the same or similar.
It worked. The labor party is now in Government with the leader (Prime Minister) experiencing a 76% popularity over the new leader of the opposition at close to 7%.
And its the first time in our history that a Prime Minister has lost not just Goverment but his electoral seat too.
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That is pretty much what modern politicians seem to do in the UK. However, it doesn't strike me as being particularly democratic.
A party and its leader should have ideas. If those ideas are any good, they should be able to sell them to the voting public (though that does become problematic if they do not suit the political agenda of the media and the corporate world).
I don't want some power-hungry sociopath lying to me about what he or she intends to do, then rolling out a completely different agenda when they're in power. That smacks of the arrogance of the political elite that are in charge right now here, in the US, and from the sound of it in Oz too.
Or did I miss the irony in your post? 
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| Re: election views? |
Tue, 06 May 2008 18:59 |
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DON'T Vote! It only encourages them!
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